After DeepSeek stuns the AI world, Alibaba responds with an allegedly more powerful model

zohaibahd

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In brief: Alibaba has struck back at rival DeepSeek with the surprise release of its new Qwen 2.5-Max model. The Chinese e-commerce titan claims its latest artificial intelligence offering surpasses the capabilities of DeepSeek's recently launched and highly-touted DeepSeek-V3.

The timing of the Qwen 2.5-Max's debut is unusual, considering it arrived on the first day of the Lunar New Year holiday, when most Chinese workers are off. It illustrates just how severely DeepSeek's AI breakthrough has rattled the established players.

We've seen the effect DeepSeek's breakthrough had on overseas rivals like OpenAI, leading to multiple posts on X by CEO Sam Altman and the massive $600 billion stock crash at Nvidia – the biggest single-day plunge for any public company ever. It's no surprise that DeepSeek's success also spurred powerful domestic Chinese tech giants to scramble for a response. Alibaba's counterpunch comes in the form of the new Qwen 2.5-Max.

"Qwen 2.5-Max outperforms...almost across the board GPT-4o, DeepSeek-V3 and LLaMa-3.1-405B," boasted Alibaba Cloud in its WeChat announcement, calling out some of the most advanced open-source AI models from the likes of OpenAI and Meta.

Beyond DeepSeek's general AI capabilities, another factor that contributed to its popularity has been the extremely low costs of developing and running its models. This has even led investors to seriously question the massive spending on AI by US tech leaders.

Likely taking that into account, Alibaba Cloud also emphasized Qwen 2.5-Max's efficiency in a blog post, highlighting that it was trained on over 20 trillion tokens while using a mixture-of-experts (MoE) architecture that requires significantly fewer computational resources than usual approaches.

Beyond Alibaba, TikTok parent ByteDance has responded with an updated version of its flagship AI, which it claims outperformed OpenAI's GPT-3.5 on certain benchmarks.

An earlier version of DeepSeek also triggered an intense price war in China back in May. DeepSeek-V2's incredibly low cost of just 1 yuan (14 cents) per million tokens of data processed forced major cloud providers like Alibaba to slash their own AI model pricing by up to 97%.

It's worth mentioning that, like DeepSeek, Alibaba's new Qwen 2.5-Max does seem to avoid discussing sensitive political topics related to China. Attempts to query it on such issues are reportedly met with messages about exceeding data quotas, even as it responds normally to other prompts.

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This is China's campaign in disrupting U.S confidence in investments....and it's working.
So China releasing an AI that's free to use, is open source and runs on hardware that doesn't require $B's of investment in NVidia hardware is a bad thing?

Out of curiosity how do you test whether one AI is more powerful than another?
 
So China releasing an AI that's free to use, is open source and runs on hardware that doesn't require $B's of investment in NVidia hardware is a bad thing?

Out of curiosity how do you test whether one AI is more powerful than another?
Unsure about Qwen. But DeepSeek was almost definitely trained using data from hacking into the back-end of openAI.
 
So China releasing an AI that's free to use, is open source and runs on hardware that doesn't require $B's of investment in NVidia hardware is a bad thing?

Out of curiosity how do you test whether one AI is more powerful than another?
I didn't say it is bad, I actually applaud their incredible achievement, but you can't deny it completely hurt U.S confidence on A.I investment...which it happens to coincide with China's interest.
 
... you can't deny it completely hurt U.S confidence on A.I investment
Agree but I'm not sure that throwing billions on building ever larger arrays of GPU's is a good way to invest in a very volatile future. It seems like the Chinese have adopted a different approached that has made a much better return. Making it open source and giving access to anyone (in the world) for free sounds better to me than a few isolated companies selling access and making billions.

DeepSeek was almost definitely trained using data from hacking into the back-end of openAI.
I guess the money invested in these companies will now be spent on lawyers trying to prove some infringement or just to sling dirt. The overall aim will be to sell as many OpenAI shares as possible before they become worthless. Maybe even, in a few months, this will force Nvidia to start selling GPU's at consumer prices again?

I guess the AI bubble has burst.
 
Chineses companies don't rival each other.

A couple years ago, I foresaw the soon coming of full automation. Stories like this and the other seem to confirm it. Glorious.
 
So China releasing an AI that's free to use, is open source and runs on hardware that doesn't require $B's of investment in NVidia hardware is a bad thing?

Out of curiosity how do you test whether one AI is more powerful than another?

well that image above suggests 11 different tests, too lazy to google , assume math is an asian meth test
apparently wins on all 11 tests

Assume all out of ye bai ( 百 ), ( 100) , seems math is hard
 
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