AI startup DeepSeek rivals OpenAI models using far fewer resources, shocks AI industry

opckieran said:

Figures China’s AI would excel in reasoning. It’ll be interesting to see where it slots in when fully benchmarked. Just goes to show you that the Chinese would have long since taken over the world by now if not for the CCP holding back its own citizens.

Click to expand...

How would the Chinese take over the world with their homogenous thinking? That's not what leads to innovation. Silicon valley innovates and leads because it attracts the brightest minds from all over the world through immigration and a stellar infrastructure with independence from the government. People also WANT to live in the USA due to their rule of law.

Who's immigrating to China to share their knowledge? Nobody. If you're western or black and you go to China they gawk at you because it's so homogenous there, which btw, also leads to alot of xenophobia of foreigners. Do Chinese companies have independence from their government? Absolutely not. Do people from other countries want to immigrate and live in China? Nope. Without the input from the world's brightest, China is doomed to just rely on their population, which won't lead them to much expansion.

Unlike CPU & GPU testing, I've read about claims made by DeepSeek without apparent rigorous 3rd party test results.

With all respect to DS, I think there's a lot of emotional bandwagons right now with no confirmation of what DS and the media are claiming.

I don't think anyone is really "shocked" other than the really low information folks.

Nvidia has sort of created its own weather with the AI craze, which is obviously beneficial to them since the whole gig is founded upon their hardware, but I think anyone in the know has been eyeing all the computing power and promises with deep sense of skepticism.

I'm sure all these companies and analysts and everyone knows they're driving a bubble, but keeping up appearances and supporting the bubble is in their best interest so its what they're going to do.

China doesn't benefit from the same air of pretenses and it is in it's best interest to undermine the whole operation with a bunch of doublespeak of their own.

toooooot said:

I tried their offline thing. I found it great for being an offline thing running on my PC.

Click to expand...

You can run any compact model with 13B parameters or fewer in LM Studio with viable performance even if using only the CPU. However, offloading the workload to the GPU will significantly improve speed.

poohbear said:

How would the Chinese take over the world with their homogenous thinking? That's not what leads to innovation. Silicon valley innovates and leads because it attracts the brightest minds from all over the world through immigration and a stellar infrastructure with independence from the government. People also WANT to live in the USA due to their rule of law.

Who's immigrating to China to share their knowledge? Nobody. If you're western or black and you go to China they gawk at you because it's so homogenous there, which btw, also leads to alot of xenophobia of foreigners. Do Chinese companies have independence from their government? Absolutely not. Do people from other countries want to immigrate and live in China? Nope. Without the input from the world's brightest, China is doomed to just rely on their population, which won't lead them to much expansion.

Click to expand...

Congratulations on such a worthy and intelligent post. I don’t want to delve into personal matters, but I understand how challenging it can be to work as a foreigner in China, even with fluent Chinese. They seem to hate you and make it clear between the lines.

poohbear said:

How would the Chinese take over the world with their homogenous thinking? That's not what leads to innovation. Silicon valley innovates and leads because it attracts the brightest minds from all over the world through immigration and a stellar infrastructure with independence from the government. People also WANT to live in the USA due to their rule of law.

Who's immigrating to China to share their knowledge? Nobody. If you're western or black and you go to China they gawk at you because it's so homogenous there, which btw, also leads to alot of xenophobia of foreigners. Do Chinese companies have independence from their government? Absolutely not. Do people from other countries want to immigrate and live in China? Nope. Without the input from the world's brightest, China is doomed to just rely on their population, which won't lead them to much expansion.

Click to expand...

Congratulations on such a worthy and intelligent post. I don’t want to delve into personal matters, but I understand how challenging it can be to work as a foreigner in China, even with fluent Chinese. They seem to hate you and make it clear between the lines.

Kirby1 said:

I don't really get why this is bringing down Nvidia stock. More efficient AI doesn't mean people are going to stop buying Nvidia chips.

Click to expand...

1) It needs so much less hardware that those massive orders are expected to become much smaller orders
2) Much less hardware would require much less power making the power bill less of an issue and thus older hardware (or the competition which is a little bit less energy efficient) can start taking orders.

It's still extremely overvalued imo, they lost more money in one night than AMD and Intel are combined due to the release of one AI model.

poohbear said:

Who's immigrating to China to share their knowledge? Nobody.

Click to expand...

China does it by offering substantial amounts of money. Plenty of westerners have done it. Here is a fairly recent WSJ article that talks about it: https://archive.ph/wK1tR

mailpup said:

China does it by offering substantial amounts of money. Plenty of westerners have done it. Here is a fairly recent WSJ article that talks about it: https://archive.ph/wK1tR

Click to expand...

True. They offer x3 x4 more than experienced people could get anywhere else.
For someone who wants to earn some good money before the retire this temptation is too much to refuse.

With all things aside, decades ago no one expected China to become the World's number 1 manufacturing company, and probably there were many doubts. Fast forward to today when the West (U.S) trying to stifle China's technology with sanctions simply is not working. China worked with what they have, had determination and came up with DeepSeek. If they're able to rattle the market that's something. Although China is Communist they're also Capitalist. If DeepSeek can keep costs of AI down I can only imagine the future.

Nonsensical model that is so deep in woke identity politics that it's indistinguishable from DEIGPT.

Ask it who the president of China and the US are and you'll see it spew out nonsense.

poohbear said:

People also WANT to live in the USA due to their rule of law.

Click to expand...

People in Mexico might want to live in America but most people around the world recoil in horror at the thought of moving there. The expensive healthcare, mass shootings, lack of holidays, the awful food, the endless consumerism, tent cities and trailers parks. What kills it for me though is the endless brainwashing that America is always best.

I think the rule of law in America is a little questionable at the moment. The current president only escaped jail by being elected. He even pardoned the rioters who violently attacked a police officer. Even the last one pardoned his son for firearms offences.

poohbear said:

How would the Chinese take over the world with their homogenous thinking? That's not what leads to innovation.

Click to expand...

Yet here we have DeepSeek which appears better than OpenAI but uses only 5% of the resources. It's also available as open source which OpenAi certainly isn't.

poohbear said:

China they gawk at you because it's so homogenous there, which btw, also leads to alot of xenophobia of foreigners.

Click to expand...

China is xenophobic but America also has a long history of xenophobia. Shortly after Independence it was declared that only a “free white person” could become a naturalized US citizen. There was the American Indian removal act. In the 1880's there was the anti Chinese movement. Anti Japanese in the 1920's. Blacks were only allowed on the same busses as whites in the 1950's. It's been anti Mexican in the South of America for decades. Currently you're switching back to being anti Chinese again.